What if Charles de Gaulle were observing the current situation, where our critical infrastructure, citizens’ data, artificial intelligence models, and public services are largely dependent on foreign technologies? What would he think of our relationship with sovereignty in the digital age? Could the man behind the “Phnom Penh speech”, who said “no” to NATO integration and bet on French civil and military nuclear power, envisage leaving France at the mercy of foreign actors in the digital space? I imagined this interview with the General, drawing on his vision and stance to respond to today’s challenges.
Me: General, in your day, you saw France’s independence as a necessity. What are your thoughts on the country’s digital situation today?
Charles de Gaulle: What we used to call military, economic, or diplomatic independence is now called digital sovereignty. The terms change, but the requirement remains the same. You cannot govern a free country by outsourcing its levers of power to others. Allowing our data, our infrastructure, and even our decisions to be filtered or controlled by systems that we do not control is tantamount to abdication, to placing ourselves under guardianship.
We often hear that foreign technologies are more advanced, more efficient…
Yes, and yesterday too we were told that others were doing better than us: the Anglo-Saxons in terms of the economy, the Soviets in terms of order, the Americans in terms of power. But I say to you: France is not measured by how easy things are or by imitation. It is measured by what it decides for itself. I created the Atomic Energy Commission, developed the computer plan, and founded the ENA and EDF not because it was easy, but because it was necessary.
Would you say that digital sovereignty is a new form of national strategy?
It is a prerequisite. Imagine a nation whose communications, administration, information, and even public opinion depend on data centers located in Seattle or California! This is a new form of vassalage, more pernicious than the old, because it is cloaked in comfort and efficiency. But I maintain that sovereignty cannot be delegated; it must be defended.
What would you do today if you were in power?
First, I would wake up the government. Not so that it manages everything, but so that it provides impetus. A strategic government is essential for any long-term policy. I would launch a digital industrial policy with the same determination that led us to enter the nuclear age. Not to copy the Americans, but to be free.
I would call together researchers, engineers, businesses, and universities. I would tell them: “France will not be the digital colony of the 21st century”, and I would fund this project as a national priority.
But some say that digital sovereignty is an illusion.
These are often the same people who said that military independence was an illusion, that leaving NATO’s integrated command structure was a mistake, and that France’s atomic bomb was a provocation. And yet? And yet we have stood firm. Not out of pride, but because a nation can only exist if it believes in its own dignity.
What do you think of artificial intelligence models that now influence how citizens access information, vote, and consume?
I am wary of any technology that replaces free will. Intelligence, whether natural or artificial, only has meaning if it serves a human purpose. Freedom, deliberation, and truth cannot be delegated to algorithms. If we want France to remain France, the French people must remain in control of their own destiny.
General, some say it’s already too late. That GAFAM has won. That we won’t be able to create the next Microsoft or Google, or even catch up. What’s your response to that?
I’ve always heard that. In 1940, people said the war was lost. In 1944, that France would never recover. In 1960, that we were doomed to live under the American umbrella. And yet? Yet we held on. Not out of illusion, but out of determination. France does not judge itself by what it cannot do, but by what it chooses to do. The future is never written in advance, and it belongs to those who organize, believe, and invest.
If digital sovereignty requires budgetary, industrial, or comfort sacrifices for citizens, should we accept them? How far should we go?
Until freedom is guaranteed. Any nation that wants to survive must accept priorities. We cannot want digital sovereignty and refuse to accept the consequences. Yes, we will have to pay more for certain services, change our habits, educate ourselves more, and regulate better. But that is nothing compared to the cost of enslavement. The real question is not what it costs, but what it is worth.
Would you accept a European coalition taking over from national independence in digital matters? Or should each nation retain its own control?
If Europe wants to exist, it must think of itself as a power, not as a market. I am in favor of European ambition, provided it is based on political will and not on dilution. European digital sovereignty, yes, provided it is a deliberate alliance between free nations, not a delegation to a technocracy. Europe will never be strong if France is weak.
But, General, the world has changed. Today, we talk about huge investments, billions that Europe no longer has. We talk about a race where the first one gets everything, a market dominated by a few giants who make the rules. What do you say to those who think it’s just out of reach?
I tell them that it is precisely because it is difficult that it is worth doing. If France or Europe wait for conditions to be perfect, they will never act. When I launched our nuclear program, we had neither the means, the expertise, nor the time. But we had the will. In any big business, you have to start by believing it’s possible, then do what’s necessary. The race isn’t over. On the contrary, it starts the moment you decide to stop suffering.
And where will we find the money to finance this ambition? Isn’t it unrealistic to believe that a European business will one day be able to compete with Google, Microsoft, Apple, Amazon, or Oracle?
Money is always found for what we consider vital. We found it to bail out banks, to subsidize energy dependencies, to correct the consequences of our failures.
Well, let’s invest in our capabilities instead. As for competing with the American giants, I say this: it’s not about imitating them, but about innovating differently. Greatness is not measured by repeating the empire of others but it comes from what we dare to imagine for ourselves.
A final word for today’s leaders?
Don’t confuse dependence with modernity. Sovereignty is not an archaism but the founding principle of any policy worthy of the name. I once said that “French policy is not made on the trading floor”. Today, I would say that it is not made on other people’s servers either.
Image credit: Image generated by artificial intelligence via ChatGPT (OpenAI)
